University of the Ryukyus
Okinawa, Japan

The controversy that has erupted in archeological circles around the world since the discovery of an enigmatic structure, described by some as 'pyramid-like', at Iseki Point just off the southernmost Japanese island of Yonaguni-Jima, some 15 years ago, looks set to get even hotter as news emerges that the so-called 'Yonaguni Monument' is just one of a number of underwater megalithic structures in a 'complex' stretching for many hundreds of miles north of Taiwan. As the sea-levels rose at the end of the last Ice Age, the dry land that was once between the Chinese mainland and Japan was inundated, and only in the last few years has the attention of marine scientists been drawn to the existence of 'walls', 'stepped-pyramid-like structures', and 'unusual artifacts' that have been found underwater in the East China Sea.

One man above all others has made a study of the 'No.1 monument' at Iseki Point over the past 10 years, and he is ideally qualified to comment on the discoveries - being a marine geologist. His name is Professor Masaaki Kimura, and in late June 2002 the Morien Institute contacted him at the University of the Ryukyus, Okinawa, Japan. Over the next few months we interviewed Professor Kimura via email, and the following pages contain the questions and answers that passed between us until mid-October 2002. The interview is illustrated with some of Professor Kimura's photographs and diagrams of the discoveries he made during countless dives over the past 10 years ...


"QUOTE"

  • Morien Institute:
    Professor Kimura, how long have you been studying the underwater structure off the coast of Yonaguni Island at Iseki Point?

  • Professor Masaaki Kimura:
    "I have been studying it during 10 years."

  • Morien Institute:
    I have read that scuba diving is one of your interests. During the past 10 years, how many dives have you personally made to study the structure at Iseki Point?

  • Professor Masaaki Kimura:
    "More than 100 times."

  • Morien Institute:
    I understand that certain features have been allocated specific names, such as 'the triangle pool', 'the loop road', and the 'arch-gate'. Can you explain why these names were assigned to those particular features of the underwater structure at Yonaguni?

  • Prof. Masaaki Kimura:
    "Triangle pool: Shape of the depression seems to be a triangle. It resembles a "Kaa" that is an artificial spring for drinking water at Gusuku Castle of ancient Okinawa. The gusuku means a castle including a temple in ancient Okinawa."

  • Morien Institute:
    What would you describe as the most interesting feature, or features, of the Yonaguni structure, and why?

  • Prof. Masaaki Kimura:
    "A rock similar to a face of a man, the height of which is about 7 m. Its eyes are artificial and, a famous free diver, Jacques Mayol liked them very much. Therefore, we call them "Jacques eyes"

  • Morien Institute:
    One of the features on the Yonaguni monument is the 'giant turtle' that has been carved out of the living rock at the eastern side of the structure. Are there any species of turtle known in the South China Sea area, which have ever been known to grow to this giant size?

  • Professor Masaaki Kimura:
    "I do not know its species. Living turtles may grow about 1.5 m long."

  • Morien Institute:
    I am told that all Japanese school children are familiar with the Okinawan fable of Urashima Taro, the gentle fisherman who saved a young turtle from bullies and released it into the ocean, only to be visited by a 'giant turtle' who offered him, for his kindness, a ride beneath the sea to a magical kingdom. Could this fable be a folk memory of the 'giant turtle' carved onto the Yonaguni monument?

  • Professor Masaaki Kimura:
    "I do not know the direct connection. However, the fable of Urashima (name of a fisherman) is related to this kind of turtle."

  • Morien Institute:
    Can you give any details about the stone tools and other artifacts that have been found on the seabed in and around the Island of Yonaguni?

  • Professor Masaaki Kimura:
    "We recovered several pieces of stone tools. Typical ones are adzes. They are not polished. Their age is estimated as up to 10 thousand years old."

Professor Kimura and his students have a variety of artifacts, including carved stones with recognizable symbols, and a number of underwater megaliths showing distinct evidence of 'toolmarks' similar to other examples of 'quarry marks' found on Yonaguni-jima (island) itself, have been discovered during the course of more than a hundred dives around Yonaguni-jima over the past ten years ...

  • Morien Institute:
    Carvings of symbols on one of those artifacts, a 'line-engraved stone tablet', are said to be similar to the artifact that has become known as 'The Okinawan Rosetta stone'. Can you speak about the history of the 'The Okinawan Rosetta stone', and also of the 'line-engraved stone tablet'?

  • Professor Masaaki Kimura:
    "More than 10 sheets of tablets called 'Okinawa Rosetta stones' were discovered about 60 years ago at the western coast of Okinawa-jima (island). There exist similar symbols to the '+' and the 'v' carved on the submarine tablet."

  • Morien Institute:
    Are there any other artifacts with symbols or recognizable shapes carved on them that have been found underwater?

  • Prof. Masaaki Kimura:
    "We recovered a big cobble with relief of four-legged animal found underwater."

  • Morien Institute:
    Are there any symbols found carved directly into the rock, either on the Yonaguni structure itself or nearby?

  • Prof. Masaaki Kimura:
    "Some symbols are carved on the western part of Yonaguni Pyramid (the westernmost island of Japan) and on the upper surface of the Kusabi (wedge) rock. It is not certain if they are artifacts."

  • Morien Institute:
    I have seen photographs of the 'main' and 'upper' terraces on the Yonaguni monument, and also of the 'loop road' that winds around the bottom. What aspects of these features convince you that ancient peoples once used them as such?

  •  Professor Masaaki Kimura:
    "There are holes estimated to be used for pillars and drains for water on the upper terrace."

  • Morien Institute:
    I gather that more evidence is coming to light about the methods used by ancient people to split the rock using wedges, and that this is true for samples both underwater off Iseki point and also on the island of Yonaguni itself. Can you give more details about this?

  • Professor Masaaki Kimura:
    "There are many quarry marks on and off Yonaguni."

  • Morien Institute:
    In February 1999 you presented a paper to The 11th Annual Symposium on Maritime Archaeology and History of Hawaii and the Pacific. Reading from the abstract, I was intrigued that you said, "The underwater structure off Yonaguni Island is called No. 1 monument or Iseki Point." Does that mean there are other monuments, maybe a No. 2 or No 3 monument, and if so, what are their locations?

  • Professor Masaaki Kimura:
    " No.2 - 5 monuments are surrounding the No.1 monument."

There seem to be many features on land, both in Okinawa and on Yonaguni-jima, that are similar to features of some of the structures found underwater. This is particularly true of the 'gusukus', which is the word in Japanese for 'castles'. Collectively, the structures found around Yonaguni-jima are only a small part of a much larger 'complex' of megalithic structures that stretch almost from the east coast of Taiwan to the Korean Peninsula - all areas that were above sea-level during the last Ice Age ...

  • Morien Institute:
    According to the abstract, at the Hawaii symposium you also said that the Yonaguni structure resembles ancient Okinawan castles such at Shuri Castle and Nakagusuku Castle on Okinawa Island. How old are these castles, and who built them?

  • Professor Masaaki Kimura:
    "Giant gusukus such as Shuri Gusuku Castle (the most important building in Okinawa, now) were built about 500 years ago. The names of who built them are well known. They are "Aji" - the same as a "king" in Europe."

  • Morien Institute:
    From the map I see that there are another two structural features some distance from the Iseki Point. These have been named as 'the stadium' and 'Goshintai'. Can you reveal when they were discovered, and why these features came to be so named?

  • Prof. Masaaki Kimura:
    "A feature similar to a stadium in also found 200 m southeast of the No.1 monument. "Goshintai" means symbolized of "God", however it is thought to be a solar clock. We call it "Teda-ishi" (sun stone). "

  • Morien Institute:
    Are we then talking about a 'complex' of megalithic structures around Yonaguni Island, and does this complex reach as far as Okinawa and other Japanese Islands?

  • Prof. Masaaki Kimura:
    "I think the complex reaches as far as Okinawa and other Japanese Islands where the Jomon Culture was since 16,000 years before present"

  • Morien Institute:
    There are topographical features which some have said are 'ancient structures' underwater off the coasts of the Kerama Islands, Aguni-Jima and also Chatan. Do they have any features in common with No. 1 monument at Iseki Point off Yonaguni Island?

  • Professor Masaaki Kimura:
    "They show in part a similar structure to a stepped pyramidal one off Kerama Islands, and a stepped broad terrace off Chatan near Okinawa mainland. Scientific data, however, are lacking in both."

  • Morien Institute:
    I am given to understand that the Okinawa Culture is different to that of mainland Japan. How old would you estimate the Okinawa Culture to be?

  • Professor Masaaki Kimura:
    "The Okinawa Culture has been said to be different to that of mainland Japan. The Okinawa one is said to be newer, since 12 Centuries. The oldest man in Japan, however, was found in Okinawa. For my idea, it would be 10,000 years old."

  • Morien Institute:
    Do you think that the ancient Jomon Culture of Japan 10,000 years ago could in any way influenced the design, and the position in the landscape, of the structures that you have found in the Yonaguni area?

  • Professor Masaaki Kimura:
    "I can see many common cultures of stones such as stone circles and monuments. However, there is definitely a difference between the Jomon and Yonaguni Cultures as regards the construction. The former showed only holes used for poles excavated in the mudground, but the latter did megalithic pyramidal structures."

  • Morien Institute:
    Before the series of abrupt glacier-melting at the end of the last Ice Age, the whole area from what is now the Korean Peninsula, to Indo-China, was above sea level, with Okinawa being high mountains near the then coastline. Do you think that there might be many more underwater discoveries of monuments, and urban complexes, in the sea between modern mainland China and Okinawa?

  • Professor Masaaki Kimura:
    "Yes. I think so. Not only the area you refer to but also around the world. There would be some difference as for urban or non-urban cultures due to the various places."

  • Morien Institute:
    Do you think that Okinawa, and the Ryukyu Islands chain, could have been the major ports for maritime trade amongst the peoples of the last Ice Age for whom it was only possible to live in those southern latitudes?

  • Prof. Masaaki Kimura:
    "Okinawa could have been the major ports for maritime trade after the last Ice age. Before it, the transportation had been along the land bridge from the Chinese mainland via Taiwan and Okinawa to the Japanese main Island during the last Ice age."

  • Morien Institute:
    Could the Yonaguni No1 monument have been used as a jetty for ships to load and unload cargoes once the sea levels had begun to rise?

  • Prof. Masaaki Kimura:
    "Originally, the No.1 monument should have most been used as a jetty but also as a Gusuku mixed with Shrine and Castle. It would have been used only as a jetty when the sea level had begun to rise, because the place would then be too isolated in the ocean."

  • Morien Institute:
    All measurements I have seen so far of the No. 1 monument tend to be approximations given in metric units, with the exception of some of the inscribed stones where they are precise, but still given in modern metric units. Has any study been undertaken using traditional Japanese or Okinawan units of measurement such as the 'sun', the 'shaku', the 'ken' or the 'ri'?

  • Professor Masaaki Kimura:
    "I do not research on metric units on the submarine monuments. Someone said Jomon units would have been used as a part of the monuments."

  • Morien Institute:
    When it comes to evidence that Iseki Point was once well above sea-level, does the discovery of the Yonaguni 'sea-floor stalactite cavern' by Mr. Youhachirou Izumi, of the Yonaguni Diving Service, now put this fact beyond dispute?

  • Professor Masaaki Kimura:
    "When it comes to evidence that Iseki Point was once well above sea-level, the Yonaguni 'sea-floor stalactite cavern' has been studied by me with scientific methods and now put this fact beyond dispute."

The sea-floor 'stalactite cavern' was discovered by Mr. Youhachirou Izumi, of the Yonaguni Diving Service, and has been extensively studied by Proff. Masaaki Kimura and his students at the University of the Ruykyus, Okinawa. As can be seen from the image below showing a diver exploring inside the cavern, the 'stalagmite', which obviously formed
on the ground over many centuries has joined with the 'stalactite', which formed over a similar period from the ceiling downwards. They are formed 'only' on dry land, when weakly acidic rainwater or river water seeps into a limestone plate, which then dissolves and eventually drips through into the cavern. This is the only way that this 'stalactite cavern' could have been formed - and it had to have formed when the cavern was last above sea-level 10,000 years ago ...

  • Morien Institute:
    After studying the No 1 monuments at Yonaguni for more then 10 years, at what date would you now estimate it was last above sea level?

  • Professor Masaaki Kimura:
    "After studying the No 1 monument at Yonaguni for more than 10 years, the structure may have been manufactured in the dry air about 10 thousand years ago based on such evidence as age determinations of the stalactite in the underwater caverns, and of the No.1 monument using 14C and 10Be methods."

"UNQUOTE"

 


 

Watch the Video of Yonaguni Monument with Dr. Kimura