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FILE ORIGINATES FROM: <<UFONET I>>
UPLOADED BY: Tom Mickus
DATE OF UPLOAD: JAN/14/1990
from
GreatDreams Website
The Falcon and the
Snow-Job, Part 1
FACTOID:
In 1947, the Air Force knew that a shiny metallic
surface makes an object show up better on radar, so they
used aluminum foil to make radar reflectors for their
weather balloons. However, by 1955, they had forgotten
this fact, so they painted the first U-2 spy planes
silver, which would have made them easily detectable by
radar as they flew over the U.S.S.R. on reconnaissance
missions. Their silvery appearance also caused people to
mistake them for UFOs, according to CIA historians.
Sometime later they realized their mistake and began to
paint them black, thus creating the first "stealth"
aircraft.
(Uncle Phaed’s UFO Investigator’s Handbook)
Who is former
AFOSI Special Agent
Richard C. Doty?
It’s not easy to find information about Doty prior to 1980. The only
information available is a few scraps in various UFO books plus the
information that can be gleaned from four files that are online.
These files consist of Doty’s reputed Air Force discharge papers, a
telephone interview that Phil Klass had with Doty on 1/8/88, and two
letters purportedly written by Doty (3/3/89 and 4/4/89). However,
there is not a lot of information in these files.
In the transcript of the telephone interview with Klass, Doty says
that his father, Edward Doty, was in the Air Force, was an
investigator for
Project Bluebook, was at Holloman AFB from 1962 to
1964, and was involved in the investigation of the 1964 UFO landing
case at Socorro, New Mexico. However, in a letter dated 3/3/89, Doty
says that it was an uncle, not his father, that was a Bluebook
investigator.
In his 3/3/89 letter, Doty says:
While assigned to the AFOSI District
70 Headquarters, Weisbaden, West Germany, I performed duties as
a counterespionage specialist. In 1986, I was involved in a
sensitive operation where I attempted to perform certain duties
which would enable our team to trap possible foreign agents
working against the interests of the United States. My
supervisors, however, seen my actions as being unauthorized.
Therefore, I was asked to leave AFOSI, which I did voluntarily.
I accepted a position at Kirtland AFB, in Albuquerque, NM, where
my son was residing with my former spouse.
Apparently, Doty was at Kirtland at
least twice. We know he was there in 1980, since that is when the
Bennewitz affair took place, and here he says that he transferred
back to Kirtland in 1986.
He goes on to say (someone had said he finished his Air Force
service as a cook):
My last two years of service was in
the Services career field, but not as a cook.
Sgt. Doty retired from the U.S. Air
Force on October 1, 1988. His letters give a post office box in
Grants, New Mexico as a return address. He says in one of the
letters that he does not live in New Mexico, but only maintains a
forwarding service there. One of his letters says that his present
job involves investigations, but nothing to do with UFOs. An
unverified source said that he is a New Mexico State Policeman in
Grants.
The first we hear of Richard C. Doty is in the summer of 1980. He
was the AFOSI officer who took Craig Weitzel’s report of seeing a
UFO near Kirtland. You will recall from our feature "Kirtland AFB
Sightings, Part 2" that, later in 1980, APRO received an anonymous
letter that embellished Weitzel’s report considerably, turning it
from a sighting report into a close encounter. According to Robert
Hastings, analysis later showed that this letter had been typed on
the same typewriter that had been used to type the original Weitzel
sighting report. This report was signed "Richard C. Doty." The
validity of this analysis, however, is not clear.
A short time after the Weitzel sighting, Paul Bennewitz contacted
Kirtland AFB with his stories of UFOs over Manzano and of receiving
low frequency alien communications. Once again, Agent Doty was the
AFOSI officer assigned to investigate.
According to William Moore, by the time he was sent to investigate Bennewitz’s claims in 1982,
Doty had been feeding the man
disinformation for two years. See the previous feature
The
Destruction of Paul Bennewitz for more on this. Moore further claims
that he was recruited by someone who called himself
Falcon to assist
in feeding disinformation about UFOs to Bennewitz, and that his
liason with Falcon was Doty. It appears, though, that Moore had
already known Doty for at least a year, since he claims Doty gave
him a copy of the Project Aquarius Document in February of 1981,
according to Curtis Peebles. The information here is very sketchy,
and is, as best I can tell, based entirely on statements from Moore.
Richard Doty says that, whatever he did, he did it under orders.
-
If so, what was the purpose of those orders?
-
It appears almost
certain that the intent was to draw attention away from the actual
sightings at Manzano and Coyote Canyon. Why?
-
What was being
protected?
-
Was the Air Force really testing UFOs at Manzano?
-
Or were
UFOs visiting Manzano?
-
Or were top-secret SDI weapons being tested
at Manzano?
One thing is for certain. Almost as soon as the relationship between
Richard C. Doty and William L. Moore began, copies of purported
classified government documents regarding UFOs suddenly began
appearing, as we shall see in the next part of this series:
The Falcon and the
Snow-Job, Part 2
And be these juggling fiends no
more believ’d,
That palter with us in a double sense;
That keep the word of promise to our ear
And break it to our hope.
(Macbeth, act 5, scene vii, line 48 - William Shakespeare)
ACT I:
Late in 1972, according to Timothy Good’s Alien Contact, film
producers Robert Emenegger and Allan Sandler were approached by
U.S. Air Force officers about making a documentary on UFOs. The
Air Force, it seemed, was now ready to "spill the beans", ready
to throw open the doors of "Hangar 18" and the "blue room".
The two producers were, according to them, invited to the
Pentagon, where they met with Air Force Colonels William Coleman
and George Weinbrenner, who showed them movies and stills of
gray aliens, including one who they said survived a crash and
lived for three years.
Then, in 1973, Emenegger and Sadler were invited to Norton AFB,
California, where they met with the head of the Air Force Office
of Special Investigations (AFOSI - the same department that
Richard Doty worked for...) and Paul Shartle, former head of
security and chief of the audiovisual program at Norton AFB. At
this meeting, they were told that film existed of an April, 1964
UFO landing at Holloman AFB, Alamogordo, New Mexico. When the
craft landed, three aliens with eyes like a cat’s stepped out
and communicated with the base commander and two scientists by
using some sort of "translator". Emenegger and
Sadker were
promised the use of this film for their documentary, but the
offer was withdrawn a short time later.
When interviewed in 1988, Paul Shartle would say that the Air
Force had told him that the film was "theatrical footage" that
had been purchased to make a training film.
In a phone interview with Phil Klass, Richard Doty purportedly
said that his family was at Holloman AFB in April, 1964,
presumably because his father, Edward Doty, was stationed there.
ACT II:
On February 9, 1978, a curious document, an apparent carbon copy
of an official U.S. Air Force incident report, arrived at the
office of The National Enquirer in Lantana, Florida.
Accompanying the document was an unsigned letter dated "29 Jan."
The report and the letter described a close encounter with an
alien that supposedly took place at Ellsworth Air Force Base in
South Dakota on 16 November 1977.
Although the names mentioned in the report were those of actual
persons on active duty at Ellsworth, even The National Enquirer
thought the report was a hoax. They said:
We found more than 20 discrepancies or errors in the report
-wrong names, numbers, occupations, physical layouts and so on.
Had the Security Option alert mentioned in the report taken
place, it would have involved all security personnel at the base
and everyone at the base and in Rapid City (Population 45,000
plus) would have known about it.
According to Doty’s purported Air Force discharge papers, he was
stationed at Ellsworth from 1976 to 1978. According to
Jacques Vallee’s Revelations,
William Moore claimed that Doty admitted
to him that had forged the Ellsworth Document. However, there is
supposedly an Inspector General’s Report on this incident that
states that the perpetrator was not Doty, but someone else.
ACT III
According to Howard Blum’s Out There, William Moore first became
interested in UFOs when he was a teenager, after reading about
the Aztec "crash" in Frank Scully’s Behind the Flying Saucers.
He joined NICAP(National Investigation Committee on Aerial
Phenomena) while in college at Thiel College in Pennsylvania in
the sixties, and remained a member after beginning his teaching
career in New York.
In the late seventies, Bill Moore co-wrote The Philadelphia
Experiment with Charles Berlitz. The book became a best-seller,
and in 1979, Moore decided to quit his teaching job in Minnesota
and try his hand at writing full-time, with his preferred
subject being UFOs.
In Arizona, he joined the Lorenzen’s Tucson-based APRO (Aerial
Phenomena Research Organization), and soon became one of its
directors. He was spending most of his time researching events
that had occurred in 1947 in neighboring New Mexico for another
book he was writing with Berlitz, The Roswell Incident. Also
helping with the research on this book was a well-known UFOlogist,
Stanton Friedman. The book was be released in 1980
and was also a best-seller. After this book, Moore broke with Berlitz and he and Friedman teamed up to continue investigating
the Roswell case for several years.
After the book became popular, Moore appeared on several radio
talk shows about Roswell and UFOs. He relates that twice, after
radio appearances in the month of September, 1980, he received
phone calls from someone who only said, "You’re the only person
we’ve ever heard who seems to be on the right track." The second
caller suggested that they meet. Moore drove to a coffee-shop in
Albuquerque and met, for the first time, the individual he
refers to as
the Falcon.
The Falcon, who Moore said was a well-placed individual within
the intelligence community who claimed to be directly connected
to a high-level government project dealing with UFOs, met with
Moore several times over a period of months and then offered him
a deal: He and the group he represented would help Moore in his
quest for the truth about UFOs if Moore would consent to help
them by feeding disinformation to, and by reporting to them on,
..... Paul Bennewitz! According to Moore, his contact during
this was not be the Falcon himself, but was.... Richard C. Doty!
Moore allegedly functioned as something of a "triple agent" for
about four years. He was friends with Paul Bennewitz while
reporting on his activities to both APRO and to Doty, and
feeding Bennewitz disinformation from Doty and/or
the Falcon.
Moore said later that he went along with this offer because he
saw it as his only chance to get "inside" information about
governmental UFO activities. See
The Destruction of Paul Bennewitz for more about this.
The Falcon and the
Snow-Job, Part 3
Red Herring ...A herring that is cured by smoking turns red. It
also has a strong odor, and hunting dogs were often trained to
follow a scent by means of a red herring that had been dragged
along the ground. On the other side of the coin, people who
opposed fox hunting sometimes drew a red herring across the path
of the fox; the dogs would give up on the fox and follow the
scent of the herring.
(The Dictionary of Cliches by James Rogers)
ACT IV
In February, 1981, according to
Curtis Peebles’ Watch the Skies,
Richard C. Doty gave Bill Moore a copy of a classified teletype
document that spoke of the government’s secret investigation of
UFOs, of a
Project Aquarius and of something called
MJ-Twelve.
This was the first known mention of those two terms.
The following year,
Moore and a former National Enquirer
reporter named Robert Pratt discussed writing a novel about the
adventures of an Air Force intelligence officer and calling it
The Aquarius Project. According to
Peebles, the novel was
actually finished, but was never published.
In the spring of 1982,
a TV station, KPIX in San Francisco,
hired Moore as a consultant for a UFO special. Moore, who was
now living in Los Angeles, was assisted by his friends Jaime Shandera, a television producer, and Stanton Friedman, the
UFOlogist. Moore gave a copy of the Aquarius teletype to KPIX,
and they asked the Air Force to verify its authenticity. KPIX
was told by the AFOSI that the document was a forgery, that it
had several flaws that identified it as such. Moore, according
to Peebles, admitted that he had retyped the document and had
added an "official-looking date stamp."
Moore arranged a meeting with Doty that included
Ron Lakis of
KPIX and Peter Gersten, a lawyer specializing in FOIA requests
for UFO documents. Doty allegedly told them that he had been
investigating UFOs for several years for the AFOSI and that he
had access to top-secret documents related to UFOs. Doty also
allegedly told them about secret treaties with the aliens and
that Project Aquarius involved contact with aliens. He
reportedly said that he knew of three UFO crashes that had been
recovered and that alien bodies were in the government’s
possession. He also mentioned that the government practiced
"disinformation" and was conditioning the public to accept the
aliens.
ACT V
In the spring of 1983, according to
Timothy Good in Alien
Contact, William Moore received a phone call from someone who
said that he would be allowed to see some important information
if he followed the instructions he was given. The instructions
involved flying from one airport to another, getting phone
instructions as to the next destination at each stop, until
finally he ended up at a motel in upstate New York. At a certain
time, an individual arrived at the motel room with an envelope
containing eleven pages. Moore was told:
You have exactly nineteen minutes. You may do whatever you wish
with the material during that time, but at the end of that time,
I must have it back. After that, you are free to do what you
wish.
The eleven pages were something called a
TOP SECRET/ORCON
document titled
Executive Briefing. Subject: Project Aquarius
dated June 14, 1977. Moore was allowed to photograph the
documents and to read their contents into a tape recorder.
The documents detailed the recovery of a crashed alien craft and
a live alien in 1949, and the recovery of a fully functioning
alien craft in Utah in 1958. It detailed several "projects"
involved with aliens and UFOs:
-
Project Bando: Medical
studies of alien bodies recovered from crashes and of the
live alien rescued from the crash in 1949 in New Mexico.
-
Project Sigma: A project to establish
communications with the aliens.
-
Project Snowbird: Testing and flight of a
recovered alien craft.
-
Project Pounce: An overall evaluation project.
Note the similarities of this
document with the one shown to Linda Moulton Howe in the next
act.
ACT VI
In April, 1983, Linda Moulton Howe, who had produced an
excellent documentary about cattle mutilations called Strange
Harvest, was working on a new script about UFOs for HBO. The
evening before her meeting with the HBO people, Howe had dinner
with an attorney named Peter Gersten. Gersten told Howe that he
had met with Richard C. Doty, an AFOSI agent at Kirtland AFB,
and perhaps Doty would be willing to talk on camera or in some
other helpful capacity about a UFO incident that had supposedly
occurred at Ellsworth AFB in South Dakota in 1978. Gersten
offered to call him and ask if he would be willing to meet with
Howe.
Arrangements were made for Howe to fly to Albuquerque on April
9, where Doty would meet her at the airport. Doty was not there
when she arrived, but he later picked her up at Jerry Miller’s
house. Miller, a former Project Bluebook investigator, was
acquainted with Doty.
On the way from Miller’s house to Kirtland AFB,
Howe asked Doty,
whose manner she said was both defiant and nervous, if he knew
anything about the Holloman landing. Doty reportedly said it
happened on April 25, 1964, just 12 hours after the famous
sighting reported by policeman Lonnie Zamora in Socorro, New
Mexico. Military and scientific personnel at the base knew a
landing was coming, but "someone blew the time and coordinates" and an "advance military scout ship" had come down
at the wrong time and place, and were seen by Zamora.
According to Howe, when they got to Kirtland,
Doty took her to a
small office where he showed her a brown envelope and said, "My
superiors have asked me to show you this." He withdrew several
sheets of white paper from the envelope. As he handed them to Howe, he warned her that they could not be copied; all she could
do was read them in his presence and ask questions.
The document was titled
Briefing Paper for the President of the
United States of America. It described UFO crashes, alien
bodies, and an alien who survived one of the crashes. The paper
listed several government UFO projects:
-
Project Garnet: an
investigation into human evolution.
-
Project Sigma: efforts to
communicate with aliens.
-
Project Snowbird: R & D of
alien technology recovered from UFO crashes.
-
Project Aquarius: The
umbrella program involving alien contact.
Doty allegedly told Howe that she
would be given several thousand feet of film taken of aliens,
including the Holloman AFB landing in 1964. The film never
materialized.
Howe says that Doty also promised her an interview with a
Colonel who had become friends with an alien who had survived a
crash and lived for three years. The offer never materialized as
the interview was repeatedly set up and then cancelled. HBO told
Howe that she would have to have all the evidence in her
possession before they would authorize any funds. Doty finally
told Howe the project was kaput and Howe’s contract with HBO
expired.
Doty would later deny all of this, although
Howe swore out a
signed affidavit that it all occurred. Doty is said to have
passed a polygraph examination that supported his version of the
interview.
ACT VII
In
Jacques Vallee’s Revelations, he tells how, in early 1985,
Robert Emenegger was approached again by Colonel William Coleman
(see The Falcon and the Snow-Job, Part 1), who was now retired
and living in Florida, with yet another offer. If Emenegger
could convince Allen Hynek and Vallee to get involved, then the
government would be willing to release "final" evidence of UFOs.
Emenegger was convinced that the offer was on the level,
particularly after a meeting with General Glenn E, Miller,
deputy director of the Defense Audiovisual Agency (DAVA), but
Hynek and Vallee proceeded cautiously.
Hynek was invited to Norton AFB in California to meet with
General Miller and his boss, DAVA director General Robert Scott. Vallee was later invited to Norton as well. They came away with
no new information, just hints and the impression that they had
been talking to two wild-eyed UFO contactees rather than two Air
Force officers.
Vallee still puzzles over the purpose of these
meetings. Were they an attempt to find out how much Hynek and
Vallee knew? Were they tentative steps toward discrediting two
of the top names in UFOlogy? Were they an opening gambit for
piping more disinformation into the field? Meanwhile, Moore,
Shandera, and Friedman were studying the MJ-12 documents....
Richard (Rick) C. Doty
Telephone interview: Jan. 8, 1988
(Highlight/Excerpts)
NOTE: The file is reproduced verbatim.
Use of CAPITALIZATION is evidently the work of the author of this
transcript. Additionally, all personal comments and
characterizations contained within, are also of the author’s.
"PJK:" = Phillip J. Klass
"RCD:" = Richard C. Doty
1. Says unable to meet with PJK this weekend, will not be in the
area, returning Thursday/Friday.
2. He asked what he could do for me and I said I wanted to get him
comments on allegations against him in Just Cause and in MUFOn Journal. Said he has seen both.
PJK: Are you planning to take any
action?
RCD: I’ve already taken action. I’ve an attorney that last
summer took some action on my behalf regarding the allegation
that I allegedly had leaked these documents.
PJK Note: But
that allegation would not made publicly by Greenwood until
Sept. 1987}} And Greenwood, Gersten, Moore and a couple other
people were involved. WELL, I HAVE AN AFFIDAVIT SIGNED BY BILL
MOORE THAT WAS EXECUTED IN COURT WITH MY ATTORNEY PRESENT THAT
SAYS THAT BILL MOORE NEVER, EVER RECEIVED ANYTHING FROM ME OTHER
THAN SOME BITS AND PIECES ABOUT AN INCIDENT THAT HAPPENED AT
KIRTLAND IN 1980. PJK doubts this could have occurred in the
few months since allegations were made public.
"HE GAVE THE PERSON’S NAME IN THE AFFIDAVIT THAT HE RECEIVED THE
DOCUMENTS FROM, AND THIS PERSON--I DON’T KNOW HIM--THIS PERSON
IS IN WASHINGTON D.C. AND MY ATTORNEY WENT TO WASHINGTON D.C.
AND SPOKE TO THIS PERSON AND HE DENIED EVER GIVING BILL MOORE
ANYTHING ALTHOUGH HE SAID HE HAD REGULAR CONTACT WITH BILL
MOORE.
PJK: Very doubtful claim
So, allegedly, Peter Gersten was given this information and then
apologized saying that they never had any concrete information
that I had given him anything anyways, but they had kind of put
two and two together and thought that it must have come from me.
PJK: You say that Moore signed an affidavit. Have you made that
affidavit public?
RCD: No, no I haven’t.
PJK: Do you plan to?
RCD: I don’t know. It’s up to the attorney. Again, this happened
last year and I have had any further contact with MUFON or
the CAUS
people. {He later changes this story.} When that article came I
was inundated with phone calls and letters and people trying to
interview me
saying they want to know what this is all about. And I don’t
even know, I didn’t know, I didn’t see these documents until
October or November.
NOTE: he is referring to
the MJ-12 papers, which were first
made public in late May/early June, 1987
And I too one look at them and said, these are phony.
(Laughs) These aren’t even credible documents. What I was shown
had some legitimate documents in that was obtained FOIA but
these other ones that were released--apparently Bill Moore
released it in some kind of a news release.
He claimed to have gotten these in (PJK: In December, 1984).
Well I wasn’t even in the country, nor would anyone have had
access to me in
1984. All these things were started in the lawyer’s--I can’t
remember what the legal term was he used--but the court document
refuting the claim
that I gave him.
PJK: Would you be willing to give me the name of your lawyer?
RCD: Ah, I can give him your name and he can contact you. But
why would you want to know that?
PJK: (Explains I am long-time UFO skeptic/investigator, that if
MJ-12 papers were authentic, it would be biggest story for
AW&ST. So I dug
into MJ-12, found evidence to indicate they are a hoax.)
RCD: Yeah, you just have to look at them. A fifth grader could
tell they’re not properly classified and down grade
instructions. I’ve been
working in classified for 20 years, from all levels. When my
lawyer showed me copies of them--and my lawyer is retired
military, of course,
and he could tell they’re phony.
Apparently Gersten’s crew knew they were phony.
PJK: (Explains prevailing view among UFO believers is that MJ-12
is a hoax, but question is who is responsible for producing
them.)
RCD: WELL, THE FBI KNOWS THAT. THE FBI KNOWS WHO DID IT. THAT
INFORMATION WAS PROVIDED TO THE FBI, THE FBI INTERVIEWED THIS
PERSON AND OF COURSE THIS PERSON DENIED HE EVER GAVE THEM TO HIM
(Moore).
But I think what this person did was he created the documents--I
don’t know if Bill Moore was actually involved in it, I don’t
think he was,
but it’s a possibility.
The FBI never pursued it, I don’t know why, unless they just
couldn’t. I don’t know if there was any law that this guy broke.
I don’t if that is public record or not, but you’d have to go to
the FBI to find out. BUT I KNOW FOR A FACT THEY INTERVIEWED
HIM--THIS PERSON IN WASHINGTON D.C.
PJK: And about when would that have been?
RCD: Ah, gee, last year (ie. 1987)
PJK: How would the FBI have located this person in
Washington--I’ll call him Mr. X--
RCD: As a matter of fact that’s what William Moore called him,
Mr. X.
PJK: Are you suggesting that Moore told the FBI who X is?
RCD: I don’t. To tell you the truth I don’t remember how--and I
don’t even know if I was privy to that information as to
how the FBI found ought who this guy was, but I think that
after this stuff came out the Justice Dept. investigated it or
made some inquiries or something and then found out, I don’t
know how. I don’t have that information.
PJK then raises allegations made by
CAUS
and reads the first:
"In 1984, Linda Moulton Howe,
who produced the well-known cattle mutilation film STRANGE
HARVEST, was contacted by a government source - CAUS later
identifies this source as Doty - to
aid in producing a UFO documentary, essentially providing the answer
to UFOs. She was invited by the source, briefed on the story, then
sworn to secrecy about it until the film’s eventual release. The
deal was never completed. Details of the story given to her match
the MJ-12 tale, along with much extra detail about contacts with ’EBES’
-Extraterrestrial Biological Entities - Nordic type aliens called
’Highs’ and conflicting alien factions."
What can you tell me about your contact with her?
RCD: (Laughs) OK. In my duties, in
my official government duties I made contact with her AND I
CAN’T TELL YOU WHY, I made contact with her for information that
she had that she was willing to share with us. The information
had nothing to do with UFOs, absolutely nothing to do with UFOs.
PJK note: Howe is a slightly wacky free-lance TV producer who
focuses on UFOs, cattle mutilations, UFO-abductions, etc.
--What kind of info would she have that Doty would seek "in an
official" capacity--and which is so sensitive he could not tell
me??
When she found out I was with a government agency and I was the
same one that had investigated the (UFO) incident (at Kirtland)
in 1980, she started asking me questions about UFOs, about what
I thought about UFOs, and what my beliefs were about them, and
if I could tell her anything about what the government had. And
I told her, I don’t know very much. I can tell you what happened
at Kirtland, because I investigated it. Probably it can be
explained away.
She said that she had been involved with Budd Hopkins and a
number of people who claimed to have been abducted (by UFOs) and
then she gives me this whole story about aliens abducting
people, and they’re called EBES, and then she said she had a
contact--I later found out who
it was--that had showed her some government documents pertaining
to MJ-12 and all this other stuff.
But I never, ever originated any contact regarding UFOs with
her. Because of our continuing interest in what she was
doing--NOT UFOs but
to something else--she would ask me questions like what do you
think about this, what do you thing about that?
I can tell you that in 1985, excuse me in May, 1986, I TOOK AN
EXTENSIVE POLYGRAPH EXAMINATION PERTAINING TO AN ALLEGATION SHE
HAD MADE AND I PASSED IT, A GOVERNMENT ADMINISTERED POLYGRAPH,
SHOWING I WAS THE ONE TELLING THE TRUTH AND SHE WAS THE ONE
LYING.
PJK asks if Howe took a Polygraph test and he says no.
RCD: There was another person involved in this who took a
polygraph test and failed it. That’s why I say I know where she
got the information from. Because this person REFUSED (??) AND
QUIT GOVERNMENT SERVICE AT THE TIME. Anyway, she would sit down
and talk to me for hours about UFOs, but she would do all the
talking. She had everything already figured out. She claimed
that well I know there’s a ship FLYING ABOVE THE ARCTIC THAT ARE
COLLECTING SOULS AND THERE’S ONLY A CERTAIN NUMBER OF SOULS AND
THEY HAVE TO BE REGENERATED. JUST INCREDIBLE STUFF. SHE BELIEVES
ALL THESE ABDUCTEES...
I HAD A CONVERSATION WITH THE TWO GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS, AND I
HAVE NOTHING TO BACK THIS UP, STRICTLY UNOFFICIAL, BUT I WAS
TOLD THAT THE GOVERNMENT AFTER HOPKINS WROTE HIS (first) BOOK,
CALLED MISSING TIME, THAT THE GOVERNMENT WENT TO THESE PEOPLE
(i.e. "abductees") AND ASKED THEM IF THEY WOULD PROVIDE THE SAME
INFORMATION TO THE GOVERNMENT AND SOME OF THESE PEOPLE
REPUDIATED WHAT THEY TOLD HOPKINS. NOW THAT’S WHAT I WAS TOLD.
Anyway, I never told her and showed her anything, except what we
were doing on the other project. She just made that up, she
exaggerated...
she’s just so hung up you can’t talk about anything else (with
her).
PJK: Then reads a second allegation:
"CAUS Director, Peter Gersten, in a visit with a military intelligence source at
Kirtland AFB in 1983 - later identified as Doty - was informed
of a wide range of bizarre UFO stories. Included were comments
on a briefing paper on UFOs for President
Carter, the Cash/Landrum (incident) being a government
exploitation of UFO technology - ...Bill Moore being ’right on’
with Roswell (crashed
saucer), and an admission that the original Project Aquarius cable (TWX) ...was retyped and not an original cable. This
cable was the
first mention anywhere of MJ-12 and Project Aquarius."
RCD: (Laughs) Gersten came out, I don’t even remember when it
was, and somebody from California, some television official from
California.
Gersten had spoke to me on the telephone several days before and
said he’d like to get in touch with me about this 1980 Kirtland
incident.
So I agreed to meet with him.
And he sat there and asked me a number of questions about UFOs
and I answered him LIKE I WAS TOLD TO ANSWER HIM. The meeting
was official insofar as my capacity.
PJK: Do you have a tape recording of that meeting?
RCD: Oh yes.
PJK: Where would that be, in OSI files?
RCD: I can’t disclose. I’m not going to comment on that. But
when I confronted Peter Gersten some time later, after my
attorney did, he shut right up, suspecting that it was recorded
and knowing that he’s lying. I told him if he wants to go to
court--I told him in a telephone conversation I did--if you want
to go to court, I’ve got the evidence to prove you wrong. And he
just shut his mouth.
Now I’m not going to go into that because there’s another aspect
involved that I can’t discuss.
RCD FREQUENTLY IMPLIES THAT HE
CANNOT DISCUSS SOMETHING BECAUSE OF SENSITIVITY, I.E.
SECURITY.
The only conversation I had with Gersten was RIGHT
OUTSIDE A HOTEL. HE WANTED TO MEET ME ALONE, GETTING BACK TO THE
CONVERSATION IN THE RESTAURANT. IT WAS STRICTLY HIM ASKING ME
QUESTIONS AND ME DENYING THEM. "I don’t know what you’re talking
about. No, I don’t know about this, or that."
He asked me about the UFO in Texas that exploded and hurt
somebody [PJK: The Cash-Landrum case]. I said I know nothing
about that. HE was the one who said I understand it was a
recovered alien craft, flown by the government--his source had
told him that. I said, well, I don’t know.
PJK: Gersten was
the lawyer for Ms. Cash and Ms. Landrum who sued USAF for $10
million for alleged injuries.
Anyways, he asked me, well I don’t remember now. But he asked me
a lot of questions but I never once provided, not one bit of
information to him, or to anyone else. (laughs) Come on now, I
wouldn’t be fool enough to do that. Well, anyway he said he
wanted to meet me later near his hotel where he was staying and
I agreed with that.
Strange behaviour if RCD could not or did
not want to answer Gersten’s questions.
The conversation
wasn’t recorded.
He showed me a document that was allegedly a teletype message
that was sent from ah, I think it was sent from Washington to
OSI Detachment or district headquarters at Kirtland, I believe
that was the routing. Any way, I looked at the document
and said gee this is an inaccurate document. And he said, why?
And I said, well in a classified document each paragraph is
classified and in this document the paragraphs were not
classified. The top marking said it was supposedly secret.
And he said, well read it, and I read it and said well it
appears to me that somebody retyped this and typed this up. And
he said, do you think it’s based on an actual document, and I
said, well, I said, it could be based on an actual document but
I’m not going to say it was. Now, years later, it was based on
an actual document that was typed. However, SOMEBODY ADDED A LOT
OF FABRICATION TO IT, A LOT OF JUNK TO IT.
Now, who I think did it is Richard Todd - a UFOlogist in Penn.
or N.J. who is active investigator using FOIA - ...He sent
documents to the government which were forged and he said in his
letter, these are forged documents, don’t you think they’re
great. I mean they had all sorts of code words in them,
unbelievable. And I think that somebody provided some
information to Todd or Gersten and then they exaggerated all the
rest of it. Probably from the FOIA documents that were released
in 1980, or whenever they were released.
So that was it. And then about a month later Gersten called me
back and said HEY, CAN YOU GIVE ME SOME MORE INFORMATION. AND I
SAID, NO I GAVE YOU--HE WANTED ME TO COMMENT MORE ON THE
DOCUMENT, THE
MJ-12 AND
AQUARIUS. AND THEN HE PROBABLY CALLED
ME SEVERAL TIMES AFTER THAT BUT I NEVER HAD ANY, NEVER
VOLUNTEERED ANY INFORMATION. I’M A PROFESSIONAL INTELLIGENCE
PERSON AND I KNOW WHAT TO SAY AND WHAT NOT TO SAY, AND I
CERTAINLY WOULDN’T TELL ANYBODY ANYTHING THAT WOULD GET ME IN
TROUBLE.
PJK: Asks if he is due to retire soon.
RCD: Yes
PJK: What are you going to be doing then?
RCD: I have a business.
PJK offers to reimburse him for this long-distance call
RCD: I’d just as soon put this thing to rest, and I thought it
was at rest once before. And I wouldn’t even have spoke to you
BECAUSE I HAVEN’T SPOKE TO ANY ONE ELSE
CONTRADICTS EARLIER
STATEMENT ABOUT MANY PHONE CALLS, INTERVIEWS
BUT A HIGH OFFICIAL WITHIN DOD CONTACTED ME AFTER I TALKED WITH
GEORGE PEARCE AND SAID NO, I DON’T WANT TO TALK TO ANYBODY. BUT
THIS OFFICIAL FROM DOD CONTACTED ME AND SAID THAT YOU (pjk) WERE
LEGITIMATE AND YOU WOULD REBUT THESE, SO I SAID SURE, AS LONG AS
HE’S GOING TO PRESS THE TRUTH AND NOT EXAGGERATE LIKE ALL THESE
PEOPLE, I’LL BE HAPPY TO TALK TO HIM.
After this telcon, PJK called Col.
David Shea, to thank him
for calling RCD, only to be told that Shea did NOT talk to Doty,
but to George Pearce -- P.I.O. at Kirtland -- SO CLEARLY RCD WAS NOT
BEING FULLY TRUTHFUL IN ABOVE CLAIM--BUT TRYING TO MAKE HIMSELF
SOUND IMPRESSIVE.
PJK: Asks for RCD’s suspicions as to who composed MJ-12
documents. "What about Bill Moore"?
RCD: No. I’VE HAD A NUMBER OF CONTACTS WITH HIM. TO TELL THE
TRUTH, I DON’T THINK HE HAS THE KNOWLEDGE TO DO THAT. Now he
could probably have helped.
I KNOW SOME THINGS THAT YOU DON’T--THE GOVERNMENT I SHOULD
SAY--KNEW SOME THINGS ABOUT HIM THAT MAYBE OTHER PEOPLE DON’T
KNOW, THAT WOULD INDICATE TO ME THAT I DON’T THINK HE WOULD DO
IT. NOW THAT’S MY FEELING. MAYBE HE DID, I DON’T KNOW.
I THINK THAT AN INDIVIDUAL WITHIN DIA [Defense Intelligence
Agency] who is a good friend of Emmeneger -- do you know a guy
name of Emmeneger ...he’s a person who wrote a book about a
Holloman incident in 1964 -- he wrote it in 1972 or
1973 -- supposedly a UFO landed at Holloman Air Force Base -- and
this Emmenger wrote a book and he allegedly based it on
information that was provided to him by DIA officials in
Washington. I never read the book....
PJK: When is the incident supposed to have occurred?
RCD: In 1964. HOLLOMAN AF BASE INCIDENT WHERE A UFO ALLEGEDLY
LANDED RIGHT ON THE BASE AND IT WAS FLOWN INTO A HANGER AND THE
BASE COMMANDER AND EVERYBODY GOT OUT THERE AND MET THE ALIENS.
EMMENEGER SUPPOSEDLY WAS ALLOWED TO SEE HIGHLY CLASSIFIED
DOCUMENTS IN THE PENTAGON REGARDING THIS INCIDENT AND THEN HE
WROTE A BOOK ABOUT IT--1973 OR 1974.
PJK: But why would they send it (MJ-12 papers) to Jamie Shandera
RCD: WHO?
PJK: Nobody in the UFO Movement had ever heard of Jamie Shandera
RCD: WHO?
PJK: Shandera is the guy who allegedly received the MJ-12
documents on a roll of unprocessed 35 mm. film.
RCD: Well, I don’t know him.
PJK believes he is telling truth,
based on his reactions above--unless RCD is a clever actor.
That’s probably just a name that Moore uses. Is this guy an
actual person?
PJK: Yeah, I’ve met him. He’s a TV producer in southern
California. (PJK explores why film was sent to Shandera instead
of Moore.)
RCD: My gut feeling, but don’t quote me, my gut feel is that
THOSE (MJ-12) DOCUMENTS WERE ORIGINATED BY A PERSON WITHIN DIA
AND THAT THEY WERE SENT TO MOORE OR TO WHOMEVER THIS OTHER GUY
IS, IN ORDER TO DISCREDIT THEM.
MY PERSONAL FEELING IS THAT IT WAS A GOVERNMENT OPERATION. (i.e.
government disinformation) I WASN’T INVOLVED IN IT. But it was a
government operation.
PJK (plays devil’s advocate to challenge his theory)
RCD: Well, maybe Mr. X thought it was such a good piece of
forgery that Moore--without ever having been in government
service or the
military--wouldn’t recognize it (as a forgery). And they would
be so fascinating to Moore
PJK: Then goes into anomaly in the date format used in MJ-12
briefing document--same curious format used by William Moore.
RCD: Well, you’re seeing things that I didn’t see. Maybe he did
do it.
PJK then offered to send him copy of my
upcoming article in Skeptical Inquirer, and he expressed interest.
PJK asked for mailing address and RCD gave military address, not
home address:
Richard C. Doty
1606 SVS/SVF
Kirtland AFB, N.M. 87117
When PJK asked: "and is that Master Sergeant," there was a long
pause and he answered "yeah, you can put Master Sergeant."
PJK: My advice to you would be that I think that you or your
lawyer ought to write a letter to CAUS or to the MUFON UFO
Journal and ask
that it be published, denying those things that you feel you
should deny.
RCD: OK Well, see, we did that. We wrote to the publishers of
the newsletters {{Note PLURAL--yet MUFON report just came out
about a week ago.}} but they didn’t publish em.
PJK: Well, if you did that, I would very much like to get a
copy. In other words, if you wrote it, intending for it to be
made public, then
there certainly is no reason for it to be kept secret.
RCD: OK, what’s your address.
PJK: Supplied same.
RCD: Yeah, I’ll be more than happy to send you a, I’ll dig
’em
up.
Don’t hold your breath until they arrive. When
PJK asks if he will stay in Albuquerque after he retires,
he said he will stay in New Mexico, explains he went to school
out here and his
father is ex-military.
When PJK asks if his father was in Army or AF, he replies:
RCD: Air Force, and he had something to do with Blue Book, too.
PJK: Tell me more about that.
RCD: Well, he was an investigator for Blue Book, he was at
Holloman from 1962 to 1966, four years. He was involved in the
Lonnie Zamora
case - 1964 "UFO landing"" at Socorro -. Edward Doty, if you’ve
ever seen any documents you’ll see his name on it.
PJK: Is he still alive?
RCD: Yes, he’s still alive. But he doesn’t talk about it. The
ironic thing, we were at Holloman, living, in 1964 and if anyone
would have known
about the landing of that spacecraft, my Dad would have, and he
says baloney, nothing like that ever happened.
PJK: Again invited him to send me the telephone bill and I would
pay for it.
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