by Jacques Vallee

extracted from the book "Revelations"

from 801 Website

Bill Cooper - I've read your recent interview (in the MUFON Journal) where you say you don't believe in MJ-12, so it made me wonder why you wanted this meeting.

 


Jacques Vallee - THE INTERVIEW WAS DONE BEFORE I MET JOHN LEAR, BUT I WILL GRANT YOU THAT MY POSITION HASN'T CHANGED THAT MUCH. I BELIEVE THERE IS A UFO PHENOMENON WHICH IS PHYSICAL IN THE USUAL SENSE, BUT IT CAN MANIPULATE SPACE AND TIME IN WAYS I CERTAINLY DON'T UNDERSTAND; PERHAPS THERE ARE PEOPLE AROUND WHO UNDERSTAND IT.

They do, but go on...
 


I FURTHER BELIEVE, AS DO YOU, THAT THE U.S. GOVERNMENT MUST HAVE BEEN STUDYING IT FOR YEARS. THAT DOES NOT MEAN THAT MJ-12 IS REAL. THERE IS A HALL OF MIRRORS ONE ENTERS AS SOON AS THE INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY IS INVOLVED, AND WE'RE RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF IT. THEN I TALKED TO LINDA HOE AND FRED BECKMAN, BOTH OF WHOM RECOMMENDED THAT I LISTEN TO JOHN LEAR, WHO IS AN IMPRESSIVE FELLOW, AND HE SAID I SHOULD TALK TO YOU, AND HERE I AM.

I became involved in the UFO question as a Naval Intelligence Man. In the period of 1971-72 I was ordered to brief several high-level officers about the contents of certain documents that were given to me. Those briefings had to do with the fact that a number of UFOs have been captured by the military and that their occupants have been working along with our scientists. We have entered into a treaty with them.
 


YOU ARE GOING A LITTLE TOO FAST FOR ME. FIRST OF ALL, WHAT WAS YOUR POSITION IN THE NAVY?

I was under Admiral Clarey, as a member of the Intelligence briefing team.
 


WERE THE DOCUMENTS CLASSIFIED, AND AT WHAT LEVEL?

They were classified Top Secret/S.I.
 


WAS THERE A CODE WORD ATTACHED TO THEM?

MAJIC, with a "J", was the code word. I am sure they changed it now.
 


HOW LONG WAS THE BRIEFING, AND WHERE WAS IT GIVEN?

There were several briefings, all of which took place at the Headquarters for Pacific Operations on the island of Hawaii. The building overlooks Pearl Harbor. The first briefing was a two-and-a-half-hour general overview, then there were periodic updates as new information came to light.
 


WHY WERE THESE OFFICERS BEING BRIEFED?

Because in their operational capacity, they had and immediate need to know. One, they might be required to recover some crashed disks in the future. Two, the UFOs might be misconstrued as offensive Soviet devices and fired upon, so they had to be aware of their existence.
 


WERE THERE INSTANCES WHEN THE UFOS POSED A REAL THREAT?

During the Vietnam War a UFO shot down a B-52. There were also cases when our troops were attacked by things they first thought were helicopters. There was some speculation at the time that the Russians must have entered the war on the North Vietnamese side, so it became a pretty serious matter.
 


DID THE NAVY EVER PICK UP A DISK AFTER THAT?

There was an incident in which I was an actual witness, involving the recovery of a craft that was later listed as a Soviet sub. I was in the command center when it happened, and I can assure you it was real.
 


HAVE YOU YOURSELF EVER SEEN AN ALIEN?

No.
 


HAVE YOU EVEN SEEN PART OF A CRASHED DISK?

No, but I know two different men who were assigned to guard crashed disks and who have spoken to me.
 


HAVE YOU EVER SEEN UFOS YOURSELF?

Once, in the late summer of 1966, I was on watch on board a submarine, the USS Tiru, SS-416, on the way to Seattle, and three of us saw a disk as large as an aircraft carrier rising out of the sea two and a half miles away on the port side. It rose and was lost in the clouds, then it came back down again.
 


DID IT DISTURB THE OCEAN?

Not really, the water would glide around it, as if it was drawn by a force field.
 


WERE THERE BRIEFINGS GIVEN TO HIGH-ECHELON OFFICERS BEFORE 1971?

There must have been, given the information in the documents. The text stated that the first secret project was established at Eisenhower's orders in 1953. Ike asked Rockefeller to help him in setting up an organization that could conduct a study without government agencies or Congress being aware of the situation. Rockefeller established it under the "Jasons", an elite intellectual group. The task force was composed of twelve men, including Kissinger, Dulles, Brzezinski, George Bush, and eight others, who became known as the the MJ-12 under operation Majority.
 


WHERE DID THEY MEET?

At a place called the Country Club. This way they could mention it openly without anyone knowing what they were talking about. It was a piece of land in Maryland which Rockefeller had set aside for the Jasons. It was only accessible through the air.
 


AND THE INFORMATION THAT WAS KEPT SECRET HAD TO DO WITH UFOS SPECIFICALLY?

With UFOs and with the Aliens. There are four types of aliens. There are two kinds of "Grays", including one race, not commonly seen, that has a large nose. Then there are the "Nordic" types, tall blonde Aryans, and finally the "Orange" ones.
 


WHERE DO THEY COME FROM?

I remember seeing several points of origin mentioned: Orion, the Pleiades, Betelgeuse, Barnard's star and Zeta Reticuli.
 


YOU MENTIONED WE HAD A TREATY WITH THEM?

Since 1964.
 


WHY WOULD THEY GO TO THE TROUBLE OF ENTERING INTO A TREATY WITH US, SINCE THEIR TECHNOLOGY IS FAR AHEAD OF OURS? JOHN LEAR MENTIONED A BILLION YEARS.

They needed the government to keep their presence secret. Remember, we had one of the Aliens in our custody. Our radar affected their navigation system and threw their craft off- balance.
 


HOW ARE THEIR SHIPS POWERED?

With a small nuclear reactor the size of a football. They use a space-time fold. I'm not a physicist, so I don't understand that. Apparently they have the ability to cloak themselves, to go invisible.
 


WHAT KIND OF METAL DO THEY USE?

In the early days it was pure magnesium. We couldn't duplicate it at the time, but now we could duplicate it in space, that's why there is so much interest in growing crystals in orbit. They use alloys that we can create on Earth but not with the same pliable structure. Do you know any of the astronauts? Ask any of the Apollo astronauts about the moon. What they saw there. There is an Alien base on the dark side of the moon.
 


WHAT HAPPENED TO THE ALIEN THAT WAS CAPTURED?

He died in 1952 after being ill for one year. The government tried to save him. They broadcast messages into space, asking that his people come and help. The result of that was the Holloman landing, on April 25, 1964, when another Alien came to work with our scientists. He gave us lots of information. The Aliens were desperate to have their presence on Earth kept secret. We agreed to that, in exchange for their technology. The Aliens were given permission to conduct abductions. They said they needed to do them on medical grounds. They were supposed to give MJ-12 the list of the humans they abducted. Then we began to realize they lied to us.
 


WHERE ARE THE ALIENS NOW?

At Area-51. Everybody thinks it is under control of the Air Force, because it's at Nellis Air Force Base in Nevada. But in reality Area-51 is under the Navy. The Navy has operational control of field activities on this project. That also includes Area-2, which was originally built as an underground storage area for the Atomic Energy Commission.
 


WHAT ABOUT GROOM LAKE?

Groom Lake is at Nellis, same thing. There is an Alien Technical Group at Nellis, and there is another one near Dulce, New Mexico, on an Indian reservation.
 


HOW DO WE KNOW THAT'S TRUE?

That's what the documents stated. It turns out there is a large magnetic anomaly where the base is. Perhaps ground-penetrating radar would show what's inside, allegedly it is all honeycombed with tunnels. The document explains how to get in, where the doors are.
 


IS IT GUARDED?

No, it's not guarded. That would only attract attention, they would have to explain what it is. But once you go in, you never come out. I can take you there if you want.
 


WHAT WERE THE TWO DOCUMENTS THAT YOU USED FOR THE BRIEFINGS? CAN YOU DESCRIBE THEM?

The thickest one was a book, about three-quarters of an inch thick, called "Grudge/Blue Book Report Number 13". People think Blue Book was under the Air Force, but it wasn't. Blue Book was under Grudge, which in turn was assigned to the Air Force to run. It had to do with abductees and implants.
 


WHAT WAS THE OTHER DOCUMENT?

It was an outline on Operation Majority, which also covered Blue Book.
 


HAS ANYONE ELSE SEEN THESE DOCUMENTS?

There is a man named Bill English who is in hiding near Albuquerque, and who has seen the same things I did. He is afraid for his life. They have already tried to kill him twice. The government blew up a van in which he was riding with two other fellows. They died, and he's lucky to have escaped. The only reason nothing happens to me is that I talk to people, I disseminate all the information I have.

 

You must realize that for a long time I kept it all inside, because I thought it was in the interest of the country, and I had a high sense of duty. I don't have that sense anymore. It's all wrong. Too many people have been killed because of this. It's completely illegal, and we have been betrayed by the Aliens. We live under immense danger now.
 


HOW DID THIS OTHER MAN, BILL ENGLISH, GET TO SEE THE DOCUMENTS?

He was a captain in the U.S. Army, Special Forces. He was assigned as an information analyst at a British base. The document came in the regular pouch. He was not supposed to see it, it was an error in routing. So he was kicked out. Attempts were made on his life. He was ridiculed. Some people even said he was on LSD!
 


WHAT DID YOU THINK OF THE 'COVER-UP" DOCUMENTARY, RELEASED BY SELIGMAN?

It was part of the damned contingency plan, a deliberate attempt by the government to confuse people. Perhaps I shouldn't say this, but some of the participants are informers for the government.
 


WHAT WAS THE PURPOSE OF THE DOCUMENTARY, THEN?

To lead people away from the truth. All the Majestic-12 documents that Moore has presented were obvious fakes. It was done to discredit the people associated with that research. The whole thing read like a chapter in his book about the Roswell crash, there was nothing new in it. The pictures of Aliens were not right. And Majestic-12 was not formed by Truman, as they implied.
 


DO YOU THINK IT IS EASY TO FOOL PEOPLE?

The truth is so incredible... Look at this magnificent ship. (They were aboard the Queen Mary) Imagine the Queen Mary sailing past an island where the population was still living in the Stone Age. What would they say about it? That's our situation with respect to alien craft.
 


PRECISELY. THE QUEEN MARY DOESN'T BOTHER TO ENTER INTO A TREATY WITH THE KING OF EVERY LITTLE ISLAND. AGAIN, BILL, I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY THE ALIENS WOULD NEED A FORMAL TREATY WITH US, IF THEY ARE SO ADVANCED. IT SEEMS TO ME THEY WOULD JUST IGNORE US COMPLETELY.

They need to make sure the government would keep their existence from the public.
 


I HAVE HEARD FROM JOHN, AND ALSO FROM LINDA HOWE, THAT THE NAME OF ALLEN HYNEK WAS MENTIONED IN REPORT-13?

Mentioned? He was the co-author of the damned thing!!! Hynek was completely involved in it, in the study of the abductions and the implants. He even made the statement that one person in forty has been abducted and has received an implant. Of course, many more people have simply been abducted. The scary part is, what if the people who are in the government have all been implanted already?
 


ALL I CAN TELL YOU IS THAT I KNEW HYNEK VERY WELL, AND THAT WHAT YOU SAY ABOUT HIM MAKES NO SENSE TO SOMEONE WHO KNEW THE MAN'S CHARACTER.

And all I can tell you is what was in that document. Hynek's name was on the cover, and inside there were pictures of the Holloman landing, photos of Aliens, autopsy tables, and details of Project Red-light, where we actually try to fly their craft, and Project Snowbird, a cover for Red-light using conventional technology, and so on. By the way, their craft don't crash when they are disabled, they settle in the impact crater where the dirt has been pushed aside.
 


THERE IS A CONTRADICTION HERE. BLUE BOOK, FROM WHAT I SAW, WAS MOSTLY A PUBLIC RELATIONS PROJECT. THERE WAS NO FOLLOW-UP ON CASES, IN FACT. HYNEK KEPT COMPLAINING ABOUT THAT.

There was no follow-up because they already knew what those things were. But they still had to explain then to the public. One of the documents said specifically that he cases they can't explain should be referred to Philip Klass, who works in cahoots with the intelligence community. You know, things are never what they seem to be anymore.
 


WHAT DO YOU THINK IS THE PURPOSE OF THE IMPLANTS?

Nobody knows. When an attempt is made to remove them, the person dies.
 


WAIT A MINUTE. IF THIS HAS BEEN GOING ON SINCE 1953, MANY OF THE IMPLANTED PEOPLE MUST ALREADY HAVE DIED OF PERFECTLY NATURAL CAUSES. IT WOULD BE A SIMPLE MATTER TO REMOVE THE IMPLANT DURING THE AUTOPSY AND STUDY IT. DON'T YOU THINK A PATHOLOGIST WOULD NOTICE IT AND BE INTRIGUED ENOUGH TO TAKE IT APART?

(No Answer)
 


BILL, IF WHAT YOU'RE TELLING ME CAN BE PROVEN, WE WILL HAVE TO RECONSIDER EVERYTHING WE KNOW ABOUT THIS PROBLEM. I HAVE NO QUESTION THAT YOU ARE TELLING ME WHAT YOU BELIEVE, AND IF YOU SAY YOU HAVE SEEN THIS REPORT-13, I AM WILLING TO TRUST YOU. BUT THE FACT THAT HYNEK'S NAME WAS ASSOCIATED WITH IT MAKES ME THINK THAT IT WAS A COMPLETE FABRICATION.

I have seen the report myself and Hynek's name is on it.
 


SO WHAT DO YOU THINK SHOULD BE DONE NOW?

The information should be disseminated to the public, as widely as possible.
 


DO YOU THINK THE PRESIDENT KNOWS?

Yes, Bush must know, as a former member of MJ-12. Previous presidents were only told what THEY wanted them to know. The President would have to blurt it out in the middle of a press conference, before they were aware that he was going to say anything.

 

Don't you see? If the information was released, the intelligence community would collapse. Nobody would ever trust those people again. As you know, Reagan classified everything about UFOs. Nobody who does any work with the government can talk about the subject, even if they do unclassified work.
 


YOU CAN'T POSSIBLY MEAN THAT! FOR ONE THING, IT WOULD VIOLATE THE FIRST AMENDMENT. FOR ANOTHER, NO ONE WOULD OBEY SUCH AN ORDER. THE GOVERNMENT HASN'T EVEN DEFINED WHAT A UFO IS! IT WOULD BE LIKE YOUR ASKING ME TO KEEP SECRET WHAT WE HAD FOR DINNER TONIGHT, OR WHAT WE SAID TO EACH OTHER. YOU COULD NEVER FORCE ME TO DO IT. I HAVEN'T AGREED TO IT IN ADVANCE. FURTHERMORE THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO KNOW WHAT WE HAD FOR DINNER TONIGHT, SO I COULDN'T KEEP IT A SECRET EVEN IF I WANTED TO!

Reagan ordered that no one doing any kind of business with the U.S. government must discuss UFOs.
 

 


LET'S TALK MORE ABOUT THE ALIENS. WHY ARE THEY COMING HERE IN THE FIRST PLACE?

There is a document about Project Aquarius that deals with the history of the Aliens and their interaction with Homo sapiens for the last twenty-five thousand years. This interaction culminated with the Basque culture and the Assyrians. But Project Aquarius was closed. Their planet has turned into a desert following a war they had with another race. They have been devastated, they are in evolutionary decline, their digestive system is atrophied. They come here in search of new genetic material.

 


THAT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE!

The government believes it!
 


HOW LONG DO THE ALIENS LIVE?

They told us they lived four hundred and fifty years. The live Alien who was left on Earth after Holloman was named Krill. He gave lots of information, scientific data, some of which was published in the open scientific literature under the name O. H. Krill, after being sanitized. Very advanced stuff. Krill is still alive. Their biology is well-understood. They are air-breathing creatures like us, although the heart is connected to their lungs as a single organ. Their digestive system is atrophied. They are chlorophyll-based, plant-like, if you will. They absorb nourishment through the skin, and they excrete through the skin too.
 


WHAT ABOUT THEIR BRAINS?

They have two brains, separated by a bone partition, but going into the same spinal cord.
 


DO YOU KNOW ANY DOCTOR WHO MIGHT HAVE ATTENDED THE ALIENS OR DONE AN AUTOPSY?

Look up the name Dr. Guillermo Mendoza. He nursed the one Alien who died. He was a biologist, not an M.D. By the way, they did feed the Alien ice cream, which he could eat in small quantities through a membrane in his mouth, and he did like strawberry. And he was partial to Tibetan music. That part of the Seligman "Cover-Up" documentary was true.
 


HOW DO THEY COMMUNICATE?

Among themselves, they communicate telepathically. They use a translation device with us. When they first came, they contacted our scientists in binary code. You know, I'm not a religious man. But if you look at the Bible, the Angels could be the Nordic types and the Grays could well be the demonic ones. After all, the Bible talks about a pact with the Devil in the last days, after Israel is reinstated. Leading to Armageddon.
 


WHAT DID THE ALIENS HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THAT?

The information they gave us wasn't just scientific data. They provided much on the occult side. They claimed that had a lot to do with our religion. They spoke about witchcraft and cults on Earth.
 


SO WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT ALL THAT?

I am going to get the information out. I have resigned from my job. To begin with, I'm organizing a symposium at Anaheim. The profits will be used to build up a reward fund for those who want to come up and reveal what they know. Then I'll take the symposium to all the major cities.