1. Let’s start out with
the origin of the story: it originally comes from Victor
Martinez’s mailing list, which is a bit like a black hole from
which no-one can escape. However, he occasionally does break
some interesting news, and as I understand it he’s the person
that broke the Serpo story. Can you tell us about the origin of
this story online?
It’s exactly as you’ve stated.
Victor received the initial e-mail from “Anonymous” (who we now
know to be someone who called themselves “Sylvester McCoglin”,
with the e-mail address thewizardofzin@lycos.com) on 1 November
2005. To be doubly sure of protecting his source, he removed the
name and substituted it with “Request Anonymous”, and streamed
the message to his list the following day. It all started from
there.
2. One notable about this story is that “Anonymous”
claimed to have been taking notes from a report in a government
library and typing them into email from memory, right? Can you
tell us a bit about “Anonymous”, or in lieu of that, maybe a bit
about what you’ve been able to piece together about them?
That’s not entirely accurate. The provenance of the information
–taking it at face value – has never been clear. It was Paul
McGovern who first made reference to the information being taken
from a 3,000 page highly classified report, but it soon became
evident that this (if it existed) was not sitting on someone’s
coffee table like a Sears Catalog.
There are indications – again, taking the releases at face value
–that the first postings were essentially non-technical
summaries taken either from memory or from someone else’s
relayed account; the style and terminology is nowhere near the
precision and quality one would expect from a formal report. I’d
say that the person writing this did NOT have direct to a formal
report.
Later, the releases came increasingly in the form of a kind of
stream-of-consciousness style “Team Commander’s Log”. To many
readers, this appeared strange, and very atypical of the formal
(if abbreviated) style one might expect from a real mission log,
which one would expect to be updated, say, at the end of each
day, rather than in the form of a continuous running commentary
of events.
However, there were some interesting clues to be found in the
releases, which indicated that they were unedited transcripts of
audiotapes: for instance, “hostel” for “hostile”, and other
basic spelling errors such as would be made by an administrator
who was just rapidly transcribing as a tape was played. This
would be at a much earlier stage than any final release to a
formal report, and indicates the possibility that what whoever
was releasing this had available to them was NOT the polished
final article, but some much earlier version of the collation of
information.
It’s also been suggested – intelligently, in my view – that the
“stream-of-consciousness” form of the audio debriefings was the
transcript of a hypnosis session to aid recall. After I
suggested this to Victor Martinez, he confirmed that Anonymous
had told him that earlier: that the original mission logs had
been lost or destroyed, so they were recreated during the
year-long mission debriefing, 13 years after their departure.
That’s a long time to recall precise day-to-day detail, and it’s
reasonable to assume that hypnosis may have been utilized as an
aid to recall and memory. There would have been a lot to recall,
and the debriefers would not want to have missed a single detail
from such an important and unique mission.
3. The Serpo story seems to have gone through some
phases: initially it was a couple of postings by “Anonymous”,
and then it gained a bit of momentum in the Sarfatti mailing
list, and eventually ended up becoming a much larger story
that’s currently making rounds on both the internet & radio
circuits. Did the Sarfatti group contribute anything to this
story—because I understand there were some debates involving the
physics of the story relating to a binary star system...
I may not have been party to those
Sarfatti postings; but it was certainly debated at some length
on the Martinez list, and on subsets of it. Certainly the binary
star issue was part of the discussion. There were two
astrophysical problems which were obvious to all.
One was that according to current
astronomical knowledge, Zeta Reticuli is what’s known as a
“distant binary” – the two stars being a tenth of a light year
apart; that would mean that the other star would only be a
bright dot in the sky, rather than a second sun like our own.
The other problem was that the orbital period (Serpo’s “year”)
and the stated distance from the star it orbited did not jive
with Kepler’s Laws. An intriguing part of the Serpo story –
which also generated a great deal of discussion, let us say –
was that physics was in some way different in that system and
that no less an authority than the famous
Carl Sagan himself had
been involved in the debriefing and had 3 eventually reluctantly
signed off the final report as accurate – despite the apparent
astronomical anomalies.
This suggests to me a couple of important things: One, that a
simple hoaxer would have been sure to have got the basic numbers
right: one can go to any bookstore and find dozens of
well-written Sci-Fi stories which describe very credible worlds;
the first thing an author does in that instance is find a
physics undergrad to get the math right for them. Yet in this
case the math seemed to be wrong. A simple hoaxer would not do
that, before releasing the information to an email list which
included hard-nosed scientists who would be sure to pounce on
the anomalies.
The second thing it suggested was a confirmation of my
hypothesis above: that this was written by someone with maybe
third-, fourth-, or even fifth-hand access to the primary
information. When the writer (“Anonymous”) said that the laws of
physics didn’t seem to apply –and which caused such a howl of
outrage – this might have been simply a Chinese Whispers way of
relaying the information that Kepler’s Laws didn’t apply in a
binary star system – which we know to be true.
The binary star issue itself is fascinating. If Zeta Reticuli is
in fact a distant binary, then Serpo could not have been in the
Zeta system, unless one of the two Zeta stars was itself a close
binary (i.e. there were actually three stars in the system – two
close, and one distant). But maybe it wasn’t Zeta Reticuli at
all – it could have been Alpha Centauri, for example. The Zeta
information could have been disinformation, or a confusion....
the latter especially if the information was, say, reported
fifth-hand, from memory of what another person told him who’d
been told by someone else, who’d read the report twenty years
ago... etc. These are all good questions, but not reason to
dismiss the story.
4. Now the Serpo story itself basically states that an
alien-exchange program was established with the Ebens, and that
a team of Americans left on an Eben ship in the late 1960’s to
spend 12 years exploring an alien planet. Can you give us an
overview of the story itself?
Here’s the “elevator speech” version – though it’s still quite a
long elevator ride. Essentially the story is:
Contact with the “Ebens” was made following communication
established with the Roswell survivor (“EBE”, later to be
“EBE-1” when 4 more came along). An exchange program was agreed.
A meeting with the Ebens at the famous “Holloman
landing” in April 1964 finalized the details, and the exchange program was
scheduled for the following year. A number of astronauts were
selected for training and 12 passed muster; the Serpo story says
10 men and 2 women, though at times this seems to be
contradicted, and it may have been 12 men.
They departed in mid-1965,
ostensibly for a 10 year trip. One died on the way there from an
embolism, another died on Serpo in an accident, two chose to
remain, and eight returned – 13 years later in 1978, the team
having somehow lost track of time, a problem caused by the 45
hour days during which there were only 3 hours of relative
darkness.
The team found the planet to be hot,
and the Ebens friendly, a low-population society (just 650,000)
living in a strange mix of low and high-technology. The team
mapped the planet extensively, eventually settling in the cooler
northern hemisphere, and even visited Otto, one of the other
Zeta planets. They encountered difficulties when the Ebens,
without seeking permission or authority, cloned the team member
who had died en route, producing a strange hybrid being.
5. Interestingly, despite the implicit assumptions in
this story about advanced alien technology, it seems that
Anonymous has posted very little about the technology of the
Ebens in his/her writing. Can you give us any insight into
advances that were discussed that might help humanity?
The principal high-tech device that was referred to is the Eben
“Energy Device” or “ED”, the stated specifications of which seem
extremely similar to those described in Robert Collins’ book
Exempt from Disclosure. In the book, a stable fifth isotope of
hydrogen is referenced, which somehow extracts what we’d call
zero point energy from the surrounding space. It was also said
to have the capacity to be used to power any device,
automatically producing the correct output required, no matter
how large or small.
I was actually shown, in a private meeting a few months ago, a
purported X-Ray of the device – though it was impossible to say
with certainty what it actually was. All I can say is that what
I saw was consistent with it being an X-Ray of a small object of
complex design. I wasn’t permitted to copy or keep the photo.
This is how the Energy Device was described in one of the
releases:
-
Dimensions: 9” x 11” x 1.5”,
weight 26.7 oz. The ED [Energy Device] is clear and made of
something similar to hard plastic.
-
On the bottom left, there is a
small square metal plate, possibly a chip. It is one of the
connector points.
-
On the bottom right, there is another small square metal
point, which is the second connector point.
Viewed from an electron microscope,
the ED contains small circularshaped bubbles. Within these
bubbles are extremely minute small particles. When a demand for
electric power is applied to the ED, the particles always move
clockwise at a great speed, not measurable. There is also some
type of unidentified fluid located around the bubbles. When a
demand is placed on the ED, this fluid turns from a clear color
to a hazy pink color. The fluid becomes warm between 102° – 115°
F.
However, the little bubbles would not heat up, ONLY the fluid.
The bubbles maintained a constant temperature of 72° F. The
boundary of the ED contains small (micron sized) wires. When a
demand is placed on the ED, the wires expand in size. This
expanding process depended on the amount of demand placed on the
ED. We did extensive, exhaustive experimentation with the ED. We
could power everything from a 0.5 watt bulb to an entire house.
The ED automatically detects the required demand and then
outputs that exact amount. It worked on everything electrical
except equipment that contained a magnetic field. Somehow, our
magnetic field interferes with the output demand of the ED.
However, we have developed a shielding process to correct this.
6. The experiences of this team on the alien planet
seem remarkably mundane: instead of a culture immersed in
technology like our own here on Earth, the Ebens seem more like
a tribe of natives living in the desert. They dance, sing, and
have rituals that seem like something out of the history
channel... The technology described in the story seems sparse at
best, and certainly isn’t the focus of Eben life. Would you
agree with this, and does it represent an actual picture of the
type of civilization that could develop interstellar travel?
It’s a good question, and all I can
say is that of course we have a natural tendency to
anthropomorphize everything: i.e. we would automatically expect
any alien species to behave like ourselves in most major ways.
That’s an unwarranted assumption.
There’s no a priori reason why
an alien race would not develop space travel and yet live simply
in domestic terms; in fact, many futurologists have argued that, that is the way that a post-industrial society must develop if
it is to survive, and have mapped that scenario on our own
future development, if we make it that far.
7. There was a mitigating factor to this story that
nobody seems to have addressed yet: the story hints that Eben
society had been devastated in the recent past by some kind of
war with another world, which raises several interesting
questions. Can you elaborate on this for me?
That was one of many intriguing snippets of information – just a
few words among the tens of thousands that were released – which
were never enlarged on. We’re just left speculating about that,
as we are about almost everything else. I suppose it’s not
unthinkable that apparently advanced species might openly war
with one another (and that the weapons used might be almost
beyond our imagination) – a case, actually, when the
anthropomorphizing might be justified.
8. Is it possible that the Ebens may have been some
type of colony from another world themselves? Picture America in
the 1700’s—the settlers had “advanced” technologies, but didn’t
have the infrastructure to produce them, and relied heavily on
England & Europe for the products that required heavy
infrastructure to produce. Could it be that the Ebens had
originated somewhere else?
Another good question. Yes, I’d
agree with that.
It’s always possible that they may have learned
their space-faring technology from another race, and not
developed it themselves. We do know, incidentally, from the
story told by Anonymous, that Serpo was not their home planet,
and they had migrated there after their original home-world was
made uninhabitable in the hundred-year war. That might explain
the low population, and the strange combination of low and
high-tech that defined their society.
9. Can you tell us about their vehicles, weapons, and
spacecraft? Would you say that they have a “technology base”
that their tools are based around—perhaps something pervasive
like gravitational control or our use of fossil fuels?
Their vehicles seemed to be typical “alien craft” as we’ve come
to envisage them; one of the team members is said to have
thought, on the trip to Serpo and having examined the power
plant, that it was a “negative matter” propulsion system. The
exact log entry read:
It contains large, very large metal containers. They are in a
circle, 7 with the ends of each pointing into the center. Many
pipes or some type of large tubes connects them. In the center
of these containers is a copper colored coil or something
looking like a coil. There is a bright light being shined [sic]
from a point above into the center of the coil. We hear a very
dull hum, but no major loud sounds. 661 [the designation for one
of the team scientists] thinks it is a negative matter versus
positive matter system.
In a previous release of information (not a purported
commander’s log), it was reported:
The ground transportation used by our team was similar to a
helicopter. The power system was a sealed energy device that
provided electrical power and lift for the craft. It was very
easy to fly and our pilots learned the system within days. The
Ebens did have vehicles, which floated above the ground and did
not have any tires or wheels.
The Energy Device seems to have been the principal societal
“fossil fuel equivalent”, as you put it – for local use on and
around Serpo. The interstellar craft (see above) may have been
powered on a different principle.
All that’s reported about their weapons is that they purportedly
had a very powerful kind of particle beam weapon – sufficient to
destroy their enemies’ planet in the hundred-year war.
10. How far ahead of our technology do you think the
Ebens are? From what I’ve read, it surprising seems like this
space-faring race is only a few years ahead of us in most of
their technologies, and in terms of others it reads as though
they may in fact be behind us. Any thoughts on this?
It’s so hard to estimate how far ahead of us an advanced society
may be; that’s essentially because the growth curve is
logarithmic. If our grandparents, living in (say) 1900, could
see ahead to our society now, they might guess with
justification that they were looking many hundreds of not
thousands of years into the future.
Yet it’s only 106 years. We
also see those kinds of disparities on our own planet in present
time: we still have tribal peoples living in literally the Stone
Age – the Andaman islanders, for instance, and some Australian
Aborigines and Native Amazonians – while on the other side of
the same world, in the same time frame, we have scientists
splitting the atom, decoding the human genome, and who knows
what else.
Those aboriginal peoples might think
us thousands of years ahead of them, as well... and yet we’re
exact contemporaries.
11. I don’t know if this came from Sarfatti’s list or
“Anonymous”, but it’s been said that the Ebens are one of many
species or groups of ET’s, and that they aren’t the
stereotypical “greys” that we see on the X-files. Does this
sound accurate from your perspective & beliefs, or is it just
one group?
This is another tantalizing question that remains unanswered.
Anonymous not once described what the Ebens looked like. This is
one of those strange anomalies that bears examination. A hoaxer
would have been sure – wouldn’t they? – to have included a
detailed description of the Eben physiology. Yet none was
forthcoming. But a plausible explanation for this might be that
in the original report there was little verbal description of
the Eben physiology... because the report would have been amply
illustrated with photographs and diagrams.
12. Speaking of multiple
alien races, it’s hard enough for most people to imagine one
group of ET’s visiting the Earth, much less several groups
simultaneously—I’ve been wondering if maybe the birth of the
atomic bomb sent out a signal that raised some interest, but
that’s just speculation. Why so many, all at once?
I think this is very clear,
personally. The real question is not “Why aren’t they here?”
(because they surely are...) but given the size of our galaxy,
let alone the known universe, the question becomes “Why aren’t
hundreds of alien races visiting us?” Given that once you’ve
mastered interstellar travel, a journey of 100 light years might
be no less daunting or problematic than a journey of 10 light
years; the analogy on our own planet might be that once you’ve
mastered heavier-than-air flight, there’s no difference in
principle between a short hop to a local airport 200 miles away,
or a long haul flight to Australia. It’s the same technology.
So given the number of advanced alien races living on planets
orbiting G-type (sun-like) stars within the sphere with a radius
of several hundred light years, it’d be expected that we’d be
receiving large numbers of different types of visitors. And
various “insider” leaks over the years name large numbers of
known alien races. I’ve heard the figures 50, 70, and 165. That
rings true to me. If the number were 2 or 3, I’d be really
worried that either the universe was indeed thinly populated, or
that we simply weren’t of any interest to anyone.
13. I’ve also heard references to Steven Spielberg’s
“Close Encounters of the Third Kind”—if I remember right, the
movie was loosely based on a landing at Holloman AFB, which
might also have been the same event in which the Serpo
exploration team boarded and left as part of the exchange
program. I think you mentioned a scene involving “men in red
jumpsuits”, that might have represented this team. Can you
elaborate?
No, that wasn’t me... I’ve actually not seen the movie for many
years, so I can’t shed any light. Maybe the jumpsuits were part
of that final scene? One of your readers may be able to clarify.
What I have been told is that in that CE3 boarding scene,
besides the hero (played by Richard Dreyfuss), there are indeed
twelve astronauts: ten men and two women. Whether this is an
invented story following art, or art following a true story – or
whether the close similarity is mere coincidence – I leave
others to speculate.
14. At the end of “Close Encounters”, a bunch of
abductees walk out of the alien craft after being gone for what
appears to be decades, and none of them are carrying bags.
However, the team going to Serpo was apparently anything but—the
story says that they took several tons of rations, equipment,
vehicles, weapons, and other materials with them to this alien
planet. Can you tell us a bit about this?
One of the early releases stated
that the team took 9,000 lbs of equipment with them, and then
this was amended to 90,500 lbs in a subsequent correction.
Because of the way the early releases were compiled, collated
and edited by Victor Martinez, it’s impossible to know whether
this apparent typo was the error of “Anonymous” or of Victor.
Interestingly, the very last release, on 3 April 2006, contained
a huge breakdown manifest of equipment, right down to the music
that the team brought with them on the trip. I did a back-of-an
envelope calculation about what it all may have weighed, and it
was all just about right... about 40 tons.
One of the items that raised a howl of protest – and several
good jokes – was the inclusion in the list of a military
lawnmower. After the hubbub had died down, one or two more sober
analysts – including some who were ex-military – pointed out
that that was the kind of general item that could very well have
been included, because it would have had a simple engine and
basic moving-part mechanics that could be adapted to a myriad of
uses in an challenging situation; rather like a useful machine
to have on a desert island (or a desert planet) if one were
ingenious and mechanically adept enough to adapt it.
15. In terms of verifiable evidence, the story is told
in the form of a logbook taken by the team sent to this other
world, but I’m wondering if “Anonymous” has provided any
information that might allow you to verify some facts that might
not otherwise be known—thus providing some confirmation for the
story?
None at all: and there’s the rub. I did, however, have an
extraordinary personal experience which I kept confidential at
the time but have recently taken it upon myself to make a public
statement about. I wrote it up in full in the most recent Serpo
update. Essentially, a third
party had requested a meeting with me in a hotel room, which
lasted about an hour. During that time I was given an envelope
and invited to open it and view its contents. I wasn’t permitted
to make copies, keep the contents, or report to anyone else the
encounter or what I’d seen.
There were five photos, three of
which were in full color. One, in black and white, showed a
rather indistinct, dark, rectangular, obelisklike object; I was
later told that it was the well-documented “tower” on Serpo.
Another, also in black and white, I was told was an X-Ray image
of the Ebens’ Energy Device, as I described earlier. A third was
a portrait of an Eben, but it was hard to tell whether or not it
was a model. A fourth was a desert scene, with some oddly eroded
rocks; but it could have been somewhere on Earth. It was the
fifth photo which took my breath away. It showed a desert
landscape, with dark storm clouds in the sky, taken from a
slightly elevated position, such as a small hill or a high sand
dune. And on the horizon were two suns setting.
I stared at that photo for a very long time and can remember
every detail. It didn’t look to me like anything created by
Photoshop; I examined it very carefully. The emotional impact
was considerable; I was surprisingly moved – and remain so every
time I recall the event. I was instructed not to tell anyone
that I had seen the photos, and that permission would be granted
to publish them on the website “in the near future”. That
permission never came, and I never saw the photos again.
16. Author Whitley Strieber recounted somebody telling
him they had proof of ET existence at a conference several years
ago, and when he asked for details, they leaned in and whispered
“Serpo” into this ear: what do you make of this claim?
It’s a great story, and is easily the kind of thing that could
have happened. If the exchange program happened, then there
were those who returned. Most of them would have been still
alive back in the early 90s when this event took place, and this
was soon after the publication of
Strieber’s best-selling book
“Communion”. I can readily imagine one of the team members being
tempted, in a moment of mischief, to tell him that he had
personally visited another planet (this is apparently the brief
conversation which ensued) – and then stated its name, before
ending the conversation and walking away.
17. Speaking of which, I’ve heard rumors that there
may be more than one “Anonymous”, meaning that part of this
story could be factual, and the other part a product of a me-too
style hoaxster. Any thoughts on this?
This has given rise to a huge amount of speculation. The facts
are that Victor Martinez received reports from one source from 1
November up until 21 December 2005... then the messages ceased.
Everyone, including Victor and myself, thought that was it, and
that it was all over.
Then on 24 January I was contacted personally, and Victor had
been by-passed. The style of the releases seemed to be
different: they were totally unedited, and I received, for
instance, thousands of words of Team Commander’s logs with no
paragraph breaks and typos all over the place; and there were
also elaborate security measures in place which I don’t believe
Victor had experienced. It did look like they were coming from a
different source.
I just did as I was told and posted the information verbatim.
Believe me, there was some information I didn’t want to post,
because the quality was so poor. But I did so nevertheless, and
never made any additions or corrections. I was told,
interestingly enough, that the way I posted the information –
exactly as-is, with no editing whatsoever –was “just as they
wanted it”.
Victor’s services had, I was told,
been dispensed with because he would edit and collate the
information before posting, to ensure it was presented
optimally. I never did that. It’s hard to say whether the
original sources were different, because Victor modified the
material he had so much before releasing it himself. So we can’t
do a direct comparison. But I do actually think they were
different people, although from the same group. Below, I’ll
state a hypothesis for consideration about what may have
occurred behind the scenes.
I suspect a considerable complexity, and what’s happened – quite
understandably – is that the patience of the UFO community
hasn’t been sufficient to stay with the story as it dragged out
for so long, with the promised photos never materializing, the
quality of the material being apparently so poor, with all the
inherent anomalies and contradictions, and total lack of
substantiation. Most people have better things to do and moved
on to other areas of the UFO field, which after all is a
labyrinth with a myriad of interesting corners to explore.
After, say, January or February,
there was no compelling reason for the audience to have stayed
with the story. Here’s my hypothesis. It matches with some data
I’ve been told off the record, and it’s a plausible picture, I
suggest. But I can’t offer a grain of solid proof, without
breaking confidences which I’m not prepared to breach.
There are three surviving members of the squad of astronauts who
prepared to go to Serpo – who never went on the mission, being
reserve members. I’ve been told the names of two of them and the
location of all three. They’re elderly, and wanted to get the
story out before they died. They sought approval from the DIA,
who assented –subject to certain conditions. The three had to
toe the line, as, although elderly, are still in the DIA’s pay.
They essentially recalled the information between themselves
(hence the gaps in the story, holes in the science, and
anecdotal writing style) and compiled the initial releases.
These were channeled to a senior DIA
official – again, I have been told his name, and he’s a
well-known public figure – who e-mailed them to Victor from the
specially created thewizardofzin@lycos.com e-mail account.
Interestingly, the moniker “Sylvester McCoglin” was derived from
the names of two ancestors of another person – so this is five
people currently involved so far, not counting Paul McGovern,
Gene Lakes, or Rick Doty, who we’ll come on to in a moment.
And “The Wizard” was the nickname of
the Team Commander of the mission, which is where the
“WizardofZin” e-mail address came from – a kind of tribute to
him. So far, so good. Victor has confirmed that during that
initial November-December period, he was actually receiving
information from three sources:
-
85% came from “Sylvester”
-
13%
came from Paul McGovern
-
2% came from Gene Lakes – McGovern
and Lakes both being known ex-DIA “insiders”
Victor would cut and paste all this,
mixing and matching so that it all came out in much the same
format. In January, several of those of us who were following
the story 13 closely realized that the IP addresses of Paul
McGovern, “Sylvester”, and Rick Doty, seemed to be similar or
identical. This gave us considerable pause for thought. When
challenged, Rick denied any complicity, and those people who
knew him well believed him.
At that stage I’d not met him, but I
did meet him and talk with him at some length at the Laughlin,
Nevada UFO conference, for the first time, and again a second
time in LA in May, then with my partner Kerry Cassidy. I got to
know him quite well, and as I’ve stated in several places, he
was visibly irritated and frustrated – as we all were – with the
turns and progress of events. He told Kerry and myself, with
obvious frustration: “If I’d been managing this disclosure, it’d
have been a class act.” He went on to tell us that he had made a
number of recommendations about how best to proceed, but they
had largely been ignored.
Those of us who understand IP addresses well (and that does not
include myself, or most other people, for that matter) insist
that the apparent identity of those IP address means nothing,
and that they can be easily fabricated; indeed, a colleague of
mine, with significant insider experience and a current Top
Secret clearance, who had been following the Serpo story very
closely, was shown by an expert colleague of his how to replace
one IP address with another in a sent e-mail in 30 seconds flat,
and demonstrated this for my colleague to see.
It’s part of my hypothesis that Rick – who as most of the UFO
community knows, was involved in a disinformation campaign
against
Paul Bennewitz in the early 1980s, and now admits it,
stating that he was under orders at the time as an agent of the
Air Force Office of Special Investigations – was set up as part
of the “fuse in the circuit”: plausible deniability.
With Rick’s IP address in place, the plausible deniability was
built-in. That’s now come home to roost, as several people have
argued forcibly that the IP address similarity means that the
entire story is a hoax. That doesn’t follow, in my logic; I
think that’s simplistic thinking.
But the problem with evaluating all
of this – and, to a degree, this mirrors what has always
happened when considering the extreme claims that populate the
entire UFO field – is that people will believe what they want to
believe – or need to believe – to support their own value set or
worldview. So the skeptics cry hoax, and others are willing to
believe every word of the story... and so the show goes on.
That, of course, may be exactly what’s intended... as I realized
about six months ago that solid proof would never materialize,
because of the need to provide an “out” for those whose
worldviews would collapse if incontrovertible proof were to be
presented. So the disclosure stories remain enigmatic and
ambiguous... quite deliberately. That way, the War of the Worlds
scenario, with panic on the streets, is avoided.
The believers are prepared, and the
deniers are not forced into a catastrophic change of worldview
that would be threatening and damaging for them and possibly for
society. But back to my hypothesis. I said this was not simple!
So far, we have the three ex-astronauts collating what they
could remember and relaying it to Victor through a senior
DIA
figure, who adopted The Wizard’s name for an e-mail address, and
concocted “Sylvester McCoglin” at the suggestion of an insider
colleague, who it is known had ancestors with those names.
Then, in December, pressure was brought to bear on them to stop
the releases; there are insider factions which oppose
disclosure, don’t let’s forget. So there was a hiatus. After
five weeks, the releases resumed, this time coming from the
astronauts themselves, this time by-passing the senior DIA
figure. They adopted stringent security measures and changed
their approach. The senior DIA figure (“Sylvester”) had been
happy for Victor to amend and edit the material, but the
astronauts themselves wanted the material posted verbatim – and
all they had available to them were unedited, uncorrected audio
transcripts of hypnosis sessions, at a very early stage in the
editing process that would have preceded publication in a
report.
It can be surmised that the same problems that hit “Sylvester”
in December then caught up with the astronauts a short while
later. I’ve heard that there was a re-grouping again, and that
plans were afoot to issue a large amount of information later in
the year once “certain problems had been handled” – but it’s now
been a long time since I heard anything at all, and let’s just
say that I’m no longer holding my breath.
Can I prove any of this? No. Have there been components of this
story which I’ve withheld? Yes, for certain good reasons. Do I
think the above conjecture is accurate? Probably not... but I
think it may be quite close. Will we ever know the whole truth?
Possibly not.
18. Personally, I think that you’ve done a real
service to this story by recording it: you stepped into what was
otherwise a loose collection of chain-emails & commentary, and
collected the salient information into a website. What prompted
you to get involved with this?
I was fascinated by the early
releases, and one night I just couldn’t sleep because all these
questions were coursing through my mind. I got up, noted them
all down, and then posted them to Victor’s list. There were
about a dozen of them, as I recall, such as how come the Eben
population was so small, would it really be sustainable to
comprise a planetary high-tech civilization, how come the team
had lost track of time so easily, and so on and so forth. I
can’t even remember them all right now.
The next thing I knew, not only had “Anonymous” praised my
questions and responded to them all in his next release, but
others had contacted me privately telling me that my questions
had impressed them and welcomed opening up a dialog with me.
Soon after that it became apparent that there needed to be some
way to ensure this information reached a wider public – not just
the hundred or so people on Victor’s list – and so I volunteered
to build a website and archive the information. It was as simple
as that.
19. As I understand things, your involvement in
collating this information has made you the victim of attacks &
slurs by several skeptics, despite the fact that you’ve never
professed any deep belief in the story itself—only the desire to
document it for posterity. Can you elaborate a bit on this?
It’s always been interesting to me that some people – which I
later learned to be a tiny minority, but who presented
themselves artificially on various forums to be a larger number,
because they were posting under multiple identities – were so
virulent and even vicious in their criticism. It was as if I
aggravated some people so much – I’d displayed what I think was
exemplary patience and courtesy under considerable pressure –
that they just had to go for the jugular and discredit me by any
means they could.
Anyone can see my sincerity if they view
Kerry Cassidy’s short
March 2006 interview with me. She asks me whether I’m an advocate of the story, to which I
answer that I’m an advocate of people being willing to consider
that the story may have merit. That remains my position.
20. Now you’ve been dealing directly with “Anonymous”
for quite some time, right? Can you tell us anything about
him/her? Any email exchanges that haven’t been posted that could
provide us with more insight or credibility into this
individual? Has this person privately revealed their true
identity to you?
I think I answered this question earlier... I have been given
some names, but I’m committed to keep those confidential. It’s a
frustrating paradox, that I can’t take any steps to make my own
life easier by disclosing the names of some of the alleged
sources. But that would be the wrong thing to do: I’m very
willing to do whatever I can to cover those up, and there are
good reasons for that. But then I pay the price by taking the
bullets myself, because the skeptics cry foul and insist I’m
making it all up. I could defend myself easily, but then that
would be to someone else’s detriment. I’m not willing to do
that.
21. What direction are your own thoughts or feelings
taking on this story? How do you feel about the story itself,
and how do you feel as the person taking responsibility building
the website that maintains the information on it?
In the words I wrote in early November, logically there are four
possibilities:
1) Anonymous is a prankster and the reported data is either
all invented or culled from other sources and added to a
wild novelistic story.
2) Anonymous is operating to a planned agenda and the
information is deliberately distorted, but contains a core
of extraordinary truth.
3) Anonymous is doing his best to report data from an
indirect source (personal notes, his own short or long term
memory, or another person), but accidental errors, omissions
and additions have occurred.
4) Anonymous is reporting everything faithfully and
accurately as best as he can present it.
Only possibility (1) means
everything should be rejected. The other three necessarily mean
that the reports deserve close attention. My own conclusion is
(2), while the “core of extraordinary truth” belongs in category
(3). In other words, there’s a core of truth: an exchange
program of some kind definitely occurred.
Some of the 17
inaccuracies are accidental (gaps in memory, unedited audiotape
transcripts, and other errors) and some are deliberate
obfuscations, confusions or misdirections. And I say this
knowing full well that I may be wrong, and that whatever I say,
others will disagree.
22. I’d like to ask about publicity: you’ve done Coast
to Coast AM, which has a vast global audience, and I understand
that you’re getting considerable web-traffic as well. Are you
having a good run with the publicity, and is it causing any
trouble for you?
Since I became involved with the
Serpo story in early November, my life has completely changed. I
met Kerry Cassidy in Laughlin –when she interviewed me a two or
three days before the conference ended. We carried on talking
for a couple of hours after she turned the camera off, and had
dinner the next evening before the Convention ended. Three weeks
later, she extended a planned trip to Egypt to stop over in the
UK for four days. A week later I flew to California; and so here
I am, and we share a beautiful apartment next door to an
extensive park complete with mountain lions, bobcats and
rattlesnakes. I love it here.
So, no trouble – and a totally new life, in which I’ve been
privileged to have made contact and become friends with a host
of courageous and exceptional people. To tell one story, I was
contacted through the Serpo website by a man who rather
unfortunately has subsequently become known as “Mr X” – someone
who in his twenties worked for six months as an archivist
working hands-on with classified UFO documents, photographs,
films and alien artifacts, and who now, twenty years later,
wanted to tell the world what he had experienced. I helped him
get his story to the public, and that was the serendipitous seed
of the inspiration that has now become
Project Camelot.
It’s still in its early stages, but
Kerry and I envisage it as an umbrella organization that will
help whistleblowers get their stories out, offer protection in
the form of safety in numbers, and honor those who have paid a
high price for their courage in challenging those with vested
interests or who adhere to out-dated, closed-minded paradigms.
Kerry and I are currently focusing a lot of time and attention
on this, and it’s both exciting and very hard work. But it has
wonderful rewards.
For example, we’ve made contact with
an elderly man who worked with
Otis Carr,
Tesla’s student and protegé, when in his early 20s. In 1954-56 he was one of three
pilots who “flew” a 45 foot diameter craft for several miles,
reaching their destination instantaneously. It was powered
with contrarotating rings of electromagnets, with an additional
component which involved shining light at various frequencies
into a large crystal. The second, critical, component was the
pilots’ focused intention as a “conscious” part of the system.
Soon after the dramatic test flight, their project was forcibly
shut down by government agents.
This guy has a 6” thick scrapbook of diagrams, blueprints and
photos. We made contact in March at which time I encouraged him
to do a full written report which I promised to publicize.
Shortly afterwards he went into hospital for a routine knee
operation, “accidentally received the wrong treatment”, and
nearly died three times. He’s just emerged, very frail, from
intensive care – but is determined to tell his story. Prior to
that he’d enjoyed perfect health for 71 years. This is exactly
what Project Camelot is for.
23. What do you think comes next in the Serpo story?
More postings, or maybe photos or video evidence? Do you think
we’ll ever get the definitive proof required to finally make a
determination, or will this story end up as a big question mark
like so many other stories?
My personal opinion is that we’ve
now heard the last of it... but I hope to be surprised! My
money, I’m afraid, is on the big question mark – as with so many
other stories which are tantalizingly short of proof. I’ll be
waiting, along with everyone else, to see if anything else
transpires; but I won’t be holding my breath. In the meantime,
as I said above, my commitments are to Kerry and to
Project
Camelot, and I have one of those feelings in my bones that the
next year or two may be very interesting indeed.
